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Mary
0:00:00
S🥂omething that businesses take for granted, that they need to stop taking for granted right this
minute, is that if you confuse🐽, you lose. People do not buy the products that are communicated the
most cleverly. They buy the🌱 products that are communicated the clearest. Donald Miller ᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ𒀱ᩚᩚᩚsays this as
part of StoryBrand. If you are not, you will lose every single time, and most likely to one of🎐 yoꦬur top
competitors.
Mary
0:00:29
So th♒is is something you cannot ignore. Your messaging has to be a top priority and clarified as
soon as possible.
Alex
0:00:36
Welcome back to Endless Customers. My n🧸ame is Alex Winter and today we a♏re joined by Mary
Brown, oᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ𒀱ᩚᩚᩚur lead web strategist here at Impact Mary. We🌟lcome back to the show.
Mary
0:00:52
Hey, thanks Alex.
Mary
0:00:53
Good to be here.
Alex
0:00:54
Great to have you here. And today we're talking about something 🏅really cool. We're talking about
StoryBrand, which is a great book, great framework. Donald Miller, we're big fans. But I think th🤡ere's
a lot of people out there t🔯hat don't know about StoryBrand. So before we get into like the nitty gritty
pieces of how to implement and roll out and
Alex
0:01:07
like use Story🐷Brand to your advantage with your business, can you just like high level tell us what
StoryBrand's all about.
Mary
0:01:13
Yeah. So the StoryBran🦋d framework is a marketing strategy tool based on storyt🔯elling principles. So
it revolves around the idea that people naturally connect with stor🍸ie𝔍s. And it allows you to leverage
stories
Mary
0:01:26
to help peop♓le emotionally co༒nnect to your messaging.
Alex
0:01:30
Nice, very nice. And why is that important? Because I feel like a lot of businesses, it's all abo🎶ut P&L.
It's all about making money, sales, bringing♕ in leads, and it's very black and white, and it almost
loses that emotional piece

 

Alex
0:01:43
that really is the story brand piece thaꦡt people connect with, and that people make buying decisions
on, because we know people make buying decisions based off their emotion🐲s.
Mary
0:01:50
Absolutely, and the rea൲son that it works is because it's based in certaܫin principles of storytelling, and
it's grounded in, we'll say, three maiಞn principles that I like to hearken back to. One of them is that
you are not the hero of the story. Your customer is▨ the hero of the story.
Mary
0:02:09
And this total✨ly flips the script, right? You have to make sure that your prospect is centered on the
story. Next is that you have to set the stakes. So a lot of peopleꦯ kind of recoil at this a li꧟ttle bit and
they say, I don't want to get negative,
Mary
0:02:22
I don't want to set stakes. But if people don't know what's at stake by no𓂃t working with you, then
they're not set upꦐ for the value propos💛ition. They're really not.
Alex
0:02:30
Right, so true.
Mary
0:02:32
And the last🐻 one is that your company is the guide. So if our prospect is the hero of the story, you
are the guide. And it's all about trust and buildi൲ng trust with that prospect,🍨 that potential customer,
that you can guide them to that outcome that they're looking for. A🍒nd this is where all the em♉otion
comes into play becaus𒆙e you are basing it on that♉ trust, being the guide to their hero, setting the
stakes,
Mary
0:02:56
all that good stuff, and it works.
Alex
0:02:59
It definitely works. And I think that's also why we love Storybra💟nd and the whole framework hereꦅ at
Impact because it pairs very well with They Ask, You Answer in the sense that we're trying 🐼to🍸 build
trust. And we do that through communication
Alex
0:03:10
and we do that through telling a good story and conveying our brand messaging in an au꧋thentic and
real way.
Mary
0:03:17
Yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

 

Alex
0:03:19
So, you work with a ton of companies, you work wit✃h a ton of brands, all different industries, B2B,
B2C, when it comes to building t🍒heir websites, redesigning their websites, helping them fix things
that are broken with their websites, wha𒀰tever the case may be, you seem to d🌸o it all. How does
StoꩵryBrand play into your approach and how you handle these sorts of⛄ situations on your
day-to-day.
Mary
0:03:40
There are so many reasons🐼 why StoryBrand is perfect for websites and why it lends really well to
imple꧟menting on a website. So one of them is 🦩that websites are all about crafting a specific message
and you can really tailor your audience on different pages. I mean your story on y𝄹our home page
might be different on a solution page🦹 and you're able to tell those unique stories ꦑon those pages. So
it works really well. Totally.
Mary
0:04:05
Another is structure. So websites are inherently structured, right? You have headiꦕngs,🌊 you have
body copy, you have calls to action. And StoryBrand is really🍨 process-driven for ho🗹w you're moving
people through the buyer's journey, an🎶d that structure allows for tha𝕴t process to really be built
beautifully within a website.
Alex
0:04:23
Right. That makes sense.
Mary
0:04:25
Okay. Another is the visual🍌 element. So, believe it or not, storytelling very much has t🍨o do with
visuals as well﷽ because visuals are so great at evoking emoꦐtion. So, think about all the photos, all
the videos that 🐲you're going to put on your website.🔥 They can really help tell that story and evoke
more emotion in ways that just written words
Mary
0:04:43
can't.
Alex
0:04:44
And they can enhance the written words as well.
12
0:04:47
Yeah.
Alex
0:04:48
Which is why it's important to not just go to iStock and grab a b✱un✃ch of random photos. Not that
iStock isn't great, but pulling random photos 💧that aren't🐼 your people, that aren't your brand, that
aren't your company.

 

Mary
0:04:58
For real.
Alex
0:04:59
Doesn't seem like the right move, right?
Mary
0:05:00
For real.
Mary
0:05:01
We tell people that all the time, and I'm ๊glad you sa🥂id, you know, not that iStock isn't bad. We always
advocate for a mix, right? You wanna ꧑have a mix. You wanna have some stock photogr🌌aphy, that's
fine,
Mary
0:05:09
but you wanna have your p🦩eople in there too, so they can see that we are human. We feel
emotions. We connect with people. And that helps build 🍌that trust as well to see that we are real
people who service real people.
Alex
0:05:21
Yeah. And real people also, we've been using this technology 🐼for a while now. So the phones and
the int▨ernet and all this stuff, especially with AI, people are smarter now and they know when it's not
an authentic photo. People know when it's a stock photo or a stock video or it's maybe a com𓆉puter
gene⛦rated type of thing. People are getting a lot more savvy, as Jack Sparrow would 🀅say.
Mary
0:05:42
They are savvy, and I'm glad you brought up how long we've been used to th𒀰is type of thing.
Because when you think about storytelling, stories were painteꦉd on cave walls💧. That's how long
stꦬorytelling has been part of being a human being and how we connect to other human beings.
Mary
0:05:57
So that's why this is a tale of old as time. It's totally timeless. It will never go away, and that's🍸 why it
works. But another reason⛄ why this 🌳is so great on websites is because websites should focus on
be🥂ne𒁏fits. And I say should because I can't tell you
Mary
0:06:12
how often I look at a website and they ju⛦st feature dump, right? It's like, we have this, we have 🦋that,
we have thi🌳s feature, we have that feature. But when you tell a story, you need to talk about the
benefits.
Mary
0:06:23
You need to paint the picture ♏of how it makes life better. That is su💟ch a huge part of StoryBrand, and
a website should do that if you're doing it righ﷽t.

 

Alex
0:06:32
Yeah, it should. And it goes back to𓂃 what you were saying, where I think a lot of companies, and I've
done this in the past too, I'm a small business owner, where it's🦋 all about me. I🌞t's like, look at all the
cool things I can do,
Alex
0:06:40
look at my degrees, look at all my awards, look at al♔l the stuff and things, but thatꦿ doesn't tell a story.
You kno🌺w, it is just a lot about you and not a lot about how you can help people and 𝔉what your
services pro🎀vide to help people get what they need because they're lo📖oking for what they want.
Alex
0:06:54
And that's a fundamental thing.
Mary
0:06:55
Yes. And we're abs🎶olutely going to talk about that in messaging. The last thing I want to say about
why websites are so perfect for im🔴plementing StoryBrand is the call to action. So that's the purpose
of a website is to call someone to action an🍌d make them do a thing. And StoryBrand helps you
identify what those actions should be. And it's such a huge p🌌art of the website, it's such a huge part
Mary
0:07:17
of ♏clarifying your 💫message that it works perfectly.
Alex
0:07:20
Yeah, no, that's a really good point. 🍨And we call it the one thing, right? When we're ♎talking, they ask
you answer, but it's like really figuring out what that CTA, what that one thing is that you want pe🦋ople
to do. And we've seen in the past, the more things that you have, the more options fꦛor people to
click on, the more confusing it potentially ca🔴n be, the harder it is to convert because people don't
know which way to g✨o. So it's really important to think about those things
Alex
0:07:41
🦩and StoryBrand does a great job of doing exactly that. So my next✤ question, right, what happens
when people don't use StoryBrand or they don't implement this correctly and maybe 🎃some of the
problems that you've seen through your travels and through your experiencꩵes.
Mary
0:07:55
🐲I see, I don't all see the good ones. I see a lot of the not so good ones.
Alex
0:07:58
And we don't have to call anybody out. We can🦩 stay g♔eneral here.
Mary
0:08:01
Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex
0:08:01
But what are some faux pas or thin🍒gs that you've seen where it didn't work or they weren't d🍸oing it
correctly and how 🌠it might have negatively affected thꦺeir business?
Mary
0:08:09
The biggest issue I see with companies that do not use StoryBrand and do not i🌳mplement this is
they have a confu🦂sing message. So whether they are victim to the curse of knowledge, where they
are just dumping level 10 complex concepts🗹 and jargon on top of♕ people's heads and they're sitting
there scratching their head
Mary
0:08:29
They don't understand what you're talking about that happens all the time Orꦏ they try to be clever
and they try to be funny and they're🍬 not coca-cola So you can't g🃏et away with being clever You have
to be cle✤ar Donald Miller says when you confuse you lose and I think that is the biggest thing that I
see with messaging the number one💦 thing And when people are conf𝓀used it sends them directly into
the arms of your competitors.
Alex
0:08:51
Yeah, totally does.
Alex
0:08:52
And trying to be funny sometimes, you may think you're funny, ❀but it m🌳ight not stick. And you might
not realize how you might be offending 🤡people. You might be really turning people off in a way that
they're going to your competition because you tried 😼to be funny and it didn't.
Mary
0:09:04
Alex, there's so many times when I will read a message and I will give a wri🐽ter props and I'll say,
that's really clever. We can't use that. I'm sorry, because that's not the goal.꧋ That's not what we're
going for. You can save it for some🍰 of your blog content maybe,
Mary
0:09:20
but on 🔴our website we have to be clear. Clarity is king.
Alex
0:09:23
Yeah, totally.
Mary
0:09:24
Another issue, and you brought this up earlier💜, is that companies so often focus entirely on
them🉐selves. So we joke in my department that we call it the three little pigs of web copy because it's
wee, wee, wee, wee, wee, all the way home because you know businesses will say we've 🔜been in
business for 25 𒀰years and this is 🔯how we help people and we're so established
Mary

 

0:09:47
and we have al🔯l these credentials no one cares no one cares no one cares all they care about is
how you can help them and sure you're 75 if you're of businessไ makes you qualified to help them
🐼but that's all they care🃏 about is how you're going to help them you have to stop talking about
yourself. You have t𝐆o flip that script. You🌱 have to make them the hero of the story. So that is
probably the number two thing
Mary
0:10:10
that I see people falling victim to all the time.
Alex
0:10:13
Okay.
Mary
0:10:14
The last one that I wanna bring up is lacking that clear next step. S💖o you ment🥃ioned this a little bit
earlier with the call to action. And it is amazing to meꩲ hꩲow many websites I will see where either
there's no call to action on the page.
Mary
0:10:27
There's just no call to action, which is mind-blowing. Or they 🌳have a call to actionꦜ that isn't clear, or
it's lukewarm, it's we👍ak. And when people don't have a clear next step, they get very confused about
what they'reꦫ🎶 supposed to do, and most likely, they're just gonna leave.
Mary
0:10:41
They're gonna do nothing. So this is so critical to your process, so criti♕cal to your website, so
important to your website being your best salesperson that you've got to get ꦡthat right.
Alex
0:10:53
Got to.
Alex
0:10:54
Got to get it rigﷺht. And I'v🌳e heard from a lot of business owners like the common phrase or thing that
rᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ⁤⁤⁤⁤ᩚ𒀱ᩚᩚᩚecurs a lot is my website doesn't do anything for us. My website doesn't work. Our website, we
spend all this money on our website an🏅d it doesn't convert any leads or really do anything.
Alex
0:11:07
And the first question should be like, well, let's take a look at the copy on y꧙o🧸ur site and what's your
call to action and what are some oཧf these key and fundamental things that people are really missing.
Mary
0:11:15
It's true. And it's funny how ꦅmany people seem mysti൲fied about the fact that their site doesn't do
anything for them because I think it's, these thinꦛgs are so basic, Alex. ⛎They're so fundamental, but I
think people miss them. It's very easy to miss about how cle𝓰ar, because when people try to be
competitive and they try to stand out in the market, that's when they try to getꦗ clever or that's when

 

they do the curse of knowledge thing and they dump all this ওstuff on you You gotta pull it back. You
got to get back to those basics and you've got to really doꦫ the fundamentals right to win
Mary
0:11:47
Yeah, I couldn't agree more
Alex
0:11:48
We actua⛄lly had been guide our head of web services here on the show not t💎oo long ago And he
was say🦹ing the same thing where if he had to choose right you put him you put on🌺e of two options
on the table and you have to pick one a Very basic website where the messag🤡iꦐng is great and
everything we're talking about right now is locked tight and it's ve💦ry✃ clear versus a very fancy, shiny,
beautiful websi🃏te that's designed well but doesn't have any of these story brand elements. He's like,
I take the basic one all day because
Alex
0:12:14
at least that one wil🍒l work and will get you the results you need. And then he said over time you can
iterate and you can add the polish and you can ⭕add those things. But a lot of times people go right to
step two and they want to be cleve♍r, they want to be competitive,🌞 they want to be artsy, and it
doesn't always work
Alex
0:12:29
out.
Mary
0:12:30
And one of the things, one of the reasons why that happens, and I've🌟 said the curse of knowledge a
few times, and that is because when you are a business and you've gotౠ, you know everything about
everything, about your business, what you offer, your solutions, how you help peop✤le in your he🔯ad,
and that's the perspective people 𒈔have when they're redoing t🤪heir websites or they're writing their
web copy, but your user doesn't have anyꦕ of that. You need to bring it down from a level 10 to
maybe a level 2.
Mary
0:12:57
And if I ever look at a 𓆏website and I read your hero section and I say, what do you 💯do?
Alex
0:13:02
What do you do?
Mary
0:13:03
That's a really bad thing.
Mary
0:13:04
That's a huge problem. That is a huge proble▨m, but it is so common. It's banan🔴as. Yeah. So that
should be your number one thing right now, open your website, look at your hero 🍨with the eyes of
your prospect, and if it is not clear what you off🐠e𝐆r, how it makes life better, and how people can get

 

Mary
0:13:22
it, you need to update that right now.
Alex
0:13:24
Yeah, that's such a great point. I thi🗹nk, too, it's hard to step out of the bubble. So, like, if you're close
to it, if it's your company, it's hard to objectively step out of that bubble and look at it, li൩ke you're
saying, where, like, is this header, is my home page really 💮converting or really clear? Do people
know what we do?
Alex
0:13:41
So sometime🔜s, what would you say, like if you can't step b🎃ack or if you feel too close to it, do you
rec൩ommend having outside people come in or what do you do in a situation like that where you may
n😼ot know 🍌but you wanna know the truth even though it may be tough to find out?
Mary
0:13:54
Yeah, so back in the olden day✱s, I might have said, you know, ask a friend or ask someone like that.
Now, AI, Alex, I'm gonna go immediately to Gemini or chat GPT and I'💝m going to put that copy in
Gemini and I'm going to𝕴 say, what questions would you have a⛦fter reading this about my business?
Or how would you optimize this to be more cl🍸ear or something? Ask 𒐪the
Mary
0:14:16
robots. They're very good because they can look at things in black and white witꩲhout 🧔any of that
industry inside stuff about your company. And they can give you that black and whiteཧ feedback that
you 🍬need to say this is♕ not good enough, try writing it this way. So that would be my go-to right now.
Alex
0:14:33
That's a great call. AI has been amazing with this stuff lateꦯly and it's only getting better. And I don't
want to get down the AI rabbit hole, but wit♋h GPT 4.0, I'm really excited
Mary
0:14:42
to see what's going to come out.
Alex
0:14:43
Another episode.
Mary
0:14:44
We'll do another episode.
Alex
0:14:45
Yea🎉h, another episode. So we talk about trust and transparency all the time here. I f🍰eel like Marcus,
that's liওke his staple. That's what we🌜 represent here at Impact. How does that play into StoryBrand
when you're trying to tell a story

 

Alex
0:14:56
and how that conveys into the website? We hit on this a little earlier,🍌 but I wanna lean a little deeper
into how important trust and transparency is. For ins꧟tance, pricꩲing. A lot of people don't put pricing
on their websites
Alex
0:15:06
and they try to keep that very close to the chest. So can we talk a little bit aﷺbout trust an⛄d
transparency?
Mary
0:15:11
Yeah, so I wanna be very clea𒁏r about this. While StoryBrand is indeed about telling a story, it is not
selective storytelling, and it is not emotional manipulation. I have had pe𝄹ople ask about this before,
because it's a fair question.
Mary
0:15:29
It's a, oh, I am penning s🐻ome fiction. I am telling a story that I want to get people to do the certain
outcome based on the things that I'm saying, and I'm setting the stakes and then I'm sett💜ing them u𝓰p
for the value prop and it can feel kind of,🐎 you know, like you might be playing with people's emotions
because we say that at the beginning, right?
Mary
0:15:47
We're leveraging storytelling principles to elicit an emotional response. That's true, thaಌt's science,
but you have to be honest and you have to be transparent. So what this means is you c🅰annot shy
away from the messy parts of the hero's journey. You can't♚. Be honest about that. And we talk about
this in They Ask, You Answer all the time.
Mary
0:16:10
When we talk about problems, when we talk about anyth🙈ing messy regarding the journey, you are
being more au🍒thentic. And people see tha🌺t as you being more authentic. And that builds trust. You
can't hide that stuff. And it also means b🎶eing realistic about what your solution can do. So you have
to also not over promise people things right when you're telling the story. Be very honesꦛt
Mary
0:16:36
about what your solution can do. Paiꦑnt the picture accurately of how it makes life better and people
will be more apt to buy into that and to believe in that. Sဣo you mentioned cost. C𒁏ost is one of those
things that p𒈔eople again They rec🙈oil at a little bit because they say oh if I put cost on my website
People are gonna get freaked out and I need t♔hem to talk to my sales people first They have to
know all the reasons why it does cost that way r♍ight our s🤪ales people are so great
Alex
0:17:04
They're ♉gonna be able to convert them right and hopefully your sales people are that great
Mary
0:17:08

 

Butꦫ the reality is the reality is that if you don't have pricing on your website, they're going to think you
have something to hide. They're going to get frustrat⛦ed becaus𓆏e they might find it somewhere else,
and they might not even give your salesperson the time of day to explain the way yo▨u want them to
explain. If you put🐭 it right out there, it aꦏutomatically builds that trust.
Mary
0:17:31
It automatically makes you transparent. And that💞's what storytelling really should be about, is about
an open dialogue, about an hon🌸✱est dialogue where you're inviting questions. You want to invite any
question that anyone has, bring it on, we're going to answer it for you. I mean, t💛hat's the framework,
right?
Alex
0:17:49
That's the dream.
Mary
0:17:50
That's the whole thing.
Mary
0:17:51
That's the dream. And that is what is, at the end of the𝐆 day, going to get you more sales.
Alex
0:17:56
Get you moreꦺ sales and establish you as a trusted voice in whatever space or industr🐻y that you're in.
Mary
0:18:00
Absolutely.
Alex
0:18:01
So for b💫usiness owners out there, for leaders out there that are marketing their sa♒les leaders, how
do they go about implementing this, right? Obviously, read the book, go check 🔴𒈔out StoryBrand if you
haven'🧜t, but once you get acclima♈ted with StoryBrand, what's the best way to go
Alex
0:18:15
about starting to implement this an🅠d ღto create a culture around this within your organization?
Mary
0:18:19
I'm gonna say it again, you just said it, but I'm going to say again, ♔if you w🍰ant to get started with
StoryBrand, you must read the book. You♕ must read the book. It is a qui♋ck read, it's a great read, it's
engro♚ssing, but it's going to give you all the i𝕴nformation you need
Mary
0:18:33
to ⭕really understand how powerful this framework is and to really help you understand how to clarify
your message. Because I did🍸n't get into, it's a seven-part framework. I didn't even get into the seveꦆn
dif🅘ferent elements of storytelling that y🍌ou need to know.

 

Mary
0:18:47
That's going to explain everything and help you understand how to ♓go about filling out that
framework basically. The second thing, you need to decide how♒ much you're going to invest in this
buyer's jour🎉ney and how deep of a journey you're going to go on. And with any journey, y༒ou're going
to need a guid𝔍e. And I know when I'm saying this, Alex, I know someone's going to be like, all right,
here's
Mary
0:19:09
the pitch.
5
0:19:10
We're getting the pitch for the guide.
Mary
0:19:11
Yes, Impact helps people with th꧒is. Y🥃es, we run these workshops all the time because it does help
people because the problem I see with people trying to do this on their own, and I h🌟ave s🎃een people
try to do i﷽t⛦ on their own, is that there is no structure.
Mary
0:19:26
There's no expert guide who's been t🐬rained on how to get the most out of this. So what happeওns is a
few things, either they have 10 standꦡing meetings where they just end up going🃏 around in circles
an♏d wasting a ton of time where nothing actually gets done.
Mary
0:19:41
They have a lot of conv🅷ersations. Nothing gets done. Or they have arguments because they can't
agree on th🌸e hero or the problem or what that aspirational identity should be, an🌸d all they do is
bicker. And there's no mediator there to get them back on trac🦋k.
Alex
0:19:57
Right, and to﷽ move the conversation forward in 🙈a meaningful way.
Mary
0:20:00
Exactly. And some people will even fill out that seven part framework that I wa💎s talking about. And
then they'll sit there and say, how do I implement thiಞs❀? What do I do? I mean, you filled out the
sheet, but how 𒆙do I🎐 get my entire company on board with StoryBrand? How do we roll this out? How
do w🦋e actually put it on our web𝔉site? Because it's not a one to one framework to website
necessarily.
Mary
0:20:20
There♑'s work that has to be done. But how do we implement it? And then they get stuck there. So
you can go it alone, and you might end up wasting 🐈a ton of time, you might end up with a ton of
headaches, you might end up

 

Mary
0:20:34
with some fighting and not talkin♌g toಞ your CEO for the next three weeks. Whatever it is, I've seen it
all. So the guide is really what's going to ensure that you end up with a cജlear message, you
understand how to roll it out to your company,
Mary
0:20:48
and you end up with that website that's going to tell that story and clarify your message to the🦄 world.
Alex
0:20:54
Totally, totally. And accountability is a huge piece too. And that's 🙈so𒈔mething that coaches, it doesn't
have to be impact, but in general💞🥂, coaches keep you accountable and make sure that on a weekly
basis
Alex
0:21:04
you're doiജng the things and you're checking in and if not, you're putt❀ing a plan together to make sure
that you can catch up or do what you need🐬 to do to sta𝓰y on track with the goals that you set out from
the get go. So, it's really important.
Mary
0:21:15
Yeah, I just talked to a client, I'm not kid🎃ding you, just this week, where we were talking about
StoryBrand, a♍nd 🔯they said, you know, we're gonna give it a shot, we're gonna, they had a meeting
about it, and he came back to me and he said,
Mary
0:21:26
Mary, he's like, I don🦩't know what we're doing. And he said, we had the meeting, we♋ went in circles, I
need help, like how, cause I'mꦰ not gonna push, I'm not gonna s♐ay, you know, we can help you with
that. And they tried it and he re♑ally said🍷, I feel like we wasted two hours.
Mary
0:21:45
So, headache, not worth it.
Alex
0:21:47
Well, and sometimes too, having a guide. ⛦Like, this is an analogy, but like, if you're going on a hike,
you're going vacation somewhere, and you're gonna go🍷 on a hike in the woods and you've never
been in these w⭕oods before, you should pro𝓡bably go with somebody
Alex
0:21:59
that knows the woods and knows the trails so you don't 🍃get lost or something like that. And it's the
same idea here where it's like you should pair with a coach or w🌌ith somebody that's done this
before, that's f𒉰amiliar with i♑t, that can do all the things that we just talked about. Keep you
acco🤡untable, keep you focused, figure out how to have the right conversations that
Alex
0:22:14

 

you're not wast🍃ing time and energy and you're getting very pointed in how to make these🀅 changes.
Mary
0:22:18
I'm gl♕ad you said the right conversations because it really is ꦗso crucial to have someone someone to
put the guardrail𓂃s on because anyone c🐻an have a conversation about who's our character. Anyone
can sa꧟y, who's our villain? What are our problems? And come up with some stuff. But if you🎶 don't
have someone who knows, y✅ou know, for example, someone says, okay, well,
Mary
0:22:40
our problem is, ཧyou know, that the industry is really complex. And then you have to say, bu🏅t what is
the root problem here? What is𒊎 the root cause? And people 🌠often don't think that way. So you need
someone who's been here before. You need someone who's gone through the trainiꦍng,
Mary
0:22:56
who's worked with soඣ many different industries to be able to getꦑ you to where you have to go
because you might not know that you cameꦍ up with the wrong answer.
Alex
0:23:04
So true.
Alex
0:23:05
All right, so we know the importance of having a coach. I also 🌳want to ask you since we got you he𒀰re
and you work with a lot of clients, how does thi☂s play into the day-to-day for your team and the web
team building websites for impacts clients? Do 🎃you always recommend StoryBrand?
Alex
0:23:19
How does that play into how you build and design sites for our clie𓃲ntele?
Mary
0:23:23
Yeah, so regardless of what shape your website is in, regardﷺless of your budget, regardless of
anything, starting with StoryBrand is tablꦿe stakes for doing a new website. And some people might
think, you🌃 kn꧒ow, messaging first. Well, we have to talk about design. We have to talk about the page
strategy. We have to talk about things like that.
Alex
0:23:42
I want to look at color swatches.
3
0:23:44
Right?
Mary
0:23:45
Yeah. But we say you have to work with a𓃲 coach first to go through the StoryBrand workshop so that
you can clarify your messaging because that is going to be the thing that anchoꦡrs your home page.

 

Your whole story is anchored around th⛄at. That is theꦡ first thing that all of our clients who go through
a we💞bsite redesign that we expect you to do. And we expect you to read the🐻 book.
Mary
0:24:07
We expect your whole org💦anization who's going to be in the workshop to read the book and then to
go through that exercise. And every single one comes out of that wor🍃kshop feeling immensely better
about their story, about their message a꧑nd saying, My gosh, I don't even know if we knew how
discombobulated and tangled our message 🅺was until w♎e went through this, and now it is so much
clearer, so much simpler. And then for me, it's a pretty🌌 ওeasy application to the website. There are
so❀me things that we have to do to it to make it fit into that inherent structure
Mary
0:24:41
that I talked about. But it flows so beautifully froꩵm doing tha🗹t workshop into our homepage copy, and
then we underst✱and how to tell that story on our service🦩 pages, our solution pages, whatever they
are. And it really makes the messaging aspect of a website 𝐆a lot better.
Alex
0:25:02
It makes 🍎sense, too, because we do the same thing in the video world, where if you don't💟 have a
script that's locked down, you shouldn'🎃t really go shoot. Because inevitably what happens is y𒆙ou
shoot it, and then in the editing room, the cli♛ent will go, ìOh, ca🍌n we change this copy and can we
change this?î And that means you♐ have to go back and reshoot, whichꦅ I feel like for a developer, itís
probably
Alex
0:25:20
the same thing. If you donít have that copy and the branding laid oꦆut correctly and you develop this
whole page or multiple pages and then the client sees it and theyíre like, ìWe donít ꦫlike the c⛎opy.î
Youíre basically hitting the restart button again and hꦗaving to go back to square 🌺one. So it sounds
li🎉ke doing this framewor💞k and using StoryBrand allows you to hash all these things out ahead of
time. And t🐼hen once you get it hashed out, it just streamlin♉es
Alex
0:25:41
the whole pro♊cess from building out the site and getting it to where it needs to be.
Mary
0:25:44
Absolutely. You can do it later. I will say it makes things💧 harder. So different p🧸eople have different
budgets. They have different ways they have to go about doing things. And I have had p🐽eople not
start with a story brand
Mary
0:25:56
workshop, and inevitably, we get𓂃 the website done. The website looks gre༺at. The coach will come
bac꧋k and say, guess what? We're going back to that home page. And the first thing we'𒐪re going to
do is we're going to update that story because it is so critical, so hugely important to the succe♕ss 💞of
any conversion path that♔ you have on your website. So we might do it out of 🔯order. It could happen,
Mary
0:26:21

 

but it can't be ignored. It has to get done at 𓄧some 𓆏point.
Alex
0:26:24
Yeah, absolutel✱y. This has been a great conversation. Any final t🎀houghts? Anything else that
business l🅠eaders or people that are thinking a🉐bout StoryBrand are thinking about redesigning their
web✃site that they should know about before we close?
Mary
0:26:36
I will just say, again, even though this is a very basic thing, even though this is a ♋very fundamental
thing, it should be a top priority thing that you do. Because I have peopl🌳e come to me all the time
and they'll say, oh, I need more qualified lওeads. We need more of this, we need m🧜ore of that.
Mary
0:26:53
We're not converting well. When I talked before about root causes, a lot of the time t💙hat root cause
can be trac꧃ed🎐 back to your messaging, and it can be traced back to not having clear messaging and
having confusing messaging.
Mary
0:27:06
So I usually will tell peop🌳le to go back to home base, start there, clarify your message first, and then
we can get into conversion rate optimization and things like that. But you can'🌠t overlo꧂ok it.
Alex
0:27:20
Well said. Very well⛎ said.𝐆 I couldn't agree more. Mary Brown, everybody, if they have questions or
follow-up question🐼s, if they want to learn how to implement, if they want to talk to you about
coaching or whatever th꧑e case may be, how can they get in touch with you?
Mary
0:27:30
Yeah. So I can be found in Impact Plus. I 🌠love hanging out in Impact Plus and I love when people
send me messages there, so please do. ജI am there to help. Or you can find me on the website and I
have, 🍒you know, my door is open. 💮I do have office hours for things like this.
Alex
0:27:46
Excellent. Mary, thanks🅘 for being on the show. Yeah, happy to be here. Excellent. And for
everybody out there listening and watching, this is Endless Customers. A𒁃ppreci𓃲ate you tuning in and
🌠we'll see you on the next episode. Appreciate you tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.
Bye!

 

About This Episode

"If you confuse, you lose," Donald Miller reminds us in his 168极速赛车平台:StoryBrand framework. W𒉰hen it comes to business websites, companies often go clever ඣor vague, leaving visitors scratching their heads and thinking, “Okay, but what do you actually do?” Miller’s principle underscores the importance of clarity and precision — and reminds us of just how quickly you can lose someone’s attention.  

In this episode of Endless Customers, Alex Winter speaks with Mary Brown, IMPACT’s lead web strategist, about how StoryBrand can help businesses refine their messagi✱ng to deliver a better website experience.

”People naturally connect with stories,” she explains, and advises businesses toꩵ “leverage stories to help people emotionally connect to your messaging." 

Unlike traditional marketing approaches, StoryBrand flips the script, positioning the customer in the center (as  “the hero” in Miller’s language), with a focus on solving that customer’s problem instead of boasting about business accomplishments.This shift helps to 168极速赛车平台:build trust and set clear stakes, showing customer🙈s what they s𒊎tand to gain by choosing your product or service.

Connect with Mary

Mary Brown is the lead website strategist at IMPACT, and she has lent her expertise to website proj༺ects in dozens of industries. 

Get to know Mary

Connect with Mary on

Learn more about how IMPACT’s team delivers the website your cu🅷stomers want

Keep Learning

• Watch: 168极速赛车平台:Is a New Website Worth the Cost?
• Read: 🉐168极速赛车平台:How to Hire Your In✃-House Website Specialist
• Test your site: 168极速赛车平台:Free Website Performance Assessment

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is a podcast produced and distributed by IMPACT, a sales and marketing training organization.

We coach businesses to implement our They Ask, You Answer framework to build tr🍒ust and fill their pipeline. 

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